S1. Ep10 - Will AI Take My Job

Katie: Welcome to the AI Automations for Business Podcasts. We're your hosts, Katie and Null, and we'll be discussing how you can use AI for your business along with the latest news, updates and automations to help you stay ahead of the curve, allowing you to grow and scale your business more efficiently. Please be sure to subscribe and I hope you enjoy this episode. Hello, welcome back to you another episode. Today, I'm really excited about this one because We're talking all about AI and AI replacing our jobs, or is it? So, as always, I'm Katie and I've got Noel here with me. Hello. And we have a special guest today. We're joined by Liam Ray. Hi, Liam.

Guest 1: Hi, Katie. Hi, Noel. Thanks having me.

Katie: No worries. Liam, do you want to introduce yourself and tell people a little bit about your experience in, you know, why you're the person to speak to about this?

Guest 1: Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. no worries. So I'm the co-founder of a company called Ray 10. We focus on helping SMEs implement AI and automation into their businesses, typically in the world of sales related areas to help improve. And the reason for that is because I've come from a sales background. It feels like many, many moons ago. I was a recruiter myself, done that for about eight years or so, stepped away and done a couple of other different businesses, all sales related. and then actually come back to a friend's business a couple years ago from a consultancy as I was going on this journey into the world of AI and automation and actually took their business from having no CRM, no software, working off a spreadsheet to having automations and AI implemented in their business when I left. So kind of taking a business right away from nothing to having something. Yeah.

Katie: Fantastic. So there's been lots of, you know, doom and gloom in the media as always. was, you know, people don't like change. So I kind of did like a little bit of Googling and just to see what was really being said about AI taking people's jobs. So the BBC reported in 2023 that AI could replace the equivalent of 300 million full-time jobs. And that actually came from a report by the Investment Bank, Goldman Sachs. and then 28% of 1,500 full-time employees of US companies. They were surveyed in 2024 by Grant Thornton. Express concerns about the possibility of their job being reduced or replaced because of AI. So I don't think these headlines, you know, do AI any justice and it does make people scared. I mean, we weren't, the three of us weren't really a round in the sense of, you know, in the 90s when the last big thing to happen like this was the internet, the invention of the internet. Yeah,

Guest 1: 100%. And also you go before that and everyone said the same about horse and cart and carts.

Katie: Yeah.

Guest 1: So if you want to go right the way back, will it replace jobs, it will replace elements of a job, 100%. That will be the case. But so as software for the last 15 years As we've seen a spike in SaaS And businesses adopt multiple software of services And take on multiple subscriptions That's all about driving efficiency It's all about increasing their velocity and quality So there's always been an element of a threat And that AI does bring that But also we have to look at it from the other lens as well And it's like, what does it then create? It's actually going to be creating a lot more opportunity I believe that will create new jobs. None of us have probably even thought of yet. So if we fast forward 10 years, what do they look like?

Katie: Exactly, because like 20 years ago, did anyone think that you could have a job that paid you incredible amount of money and you record a content creator or, you know, a YouTuber?

Guest 1: Yes, it's crazy. It is crazy. I've got two young kids. And if I go back to me being their age, I wanted to be a footballer, now their age, want to be a YouTuber.

Katie: Yeah.

Guest 1: And it's scary. I mean, you sit there and go, what is a YouTuber? Define that. It's just a headline. It's, I want to be a YouTuber. They don't have a niche. What are they talking about? But yeah, I really feel that AI will, it's got to have guard rails, 100%. We've got to be careful with it, one million percent. But it will create some of the opportunities. It will improve efficiency, like unfold. Yeah, apparently.

Katie: it's estimated by, this was by McKinsey Global Institute that by 2030, AI could contribute to the creation of 20 to 50 million new jobs globally.

Guest 1: That doesn't surprise me at all.

Katie: No.

Guest 1: It doesn't surprise me.

Katie: And we don't even know what half of them are going to be yet.

Guest 1: No, that's exactly what I was about to say. We have no idea what those roles will even look like. Because if you said to me five years ago that I'd be doing the, the job that I'm doing now, I would have said, I'm not really sure, because I'm not from a technology background. I've always been a sales-led individual that thinks in systems that loves tech. So it's kind of like I've now found myself in a world that actually AI enables me to do that, AI and automation enables me to do that. And that's effectively coming from no code. And I would never have said five years ago that that was even feasible. So it's quite crazy.

Noel: I guess a lot of the jobs are all going to be prompt engineers as well. You're going to need people that can interact with these models efficiently. And companies are going to need people that understand that properly to get the maximum out of all the tools that they use, whether it be images, video, and you've got to have your own video prompts or text prompts. That's going to be a big job.

Guest 1: Yeah, it would almost be like a prompt agency. You could almost imagine being the case so that if you had a requirement, you go to them and they help you fulfill that, you know.

Katie: What was a graphic designer? Liam, please don't give Noel any more ideals for new business.

Noel: I've got an automation for that.

Katie: I just, as soon as you said that, Liam, I just saw like the light bulb above Noel's head.

Guest 2: The problem is he now goes into the rabbit hole later trying to build it.

Katie: Yeah, I won't see Noel now for a couple of days because he'll just be working out how to do it.

Guest 2: Yeah, he's hibernating. Yeah.

Katie: Yeah, it'll just come down for something to eat and then sneak back off. But, you know,

Guest 1: it's interesting though. You say that I also think there's going to be a major part as well now where the human interaction has become even more important because that we've all seen it, you can see the social media posts when you know someone's right in with chat GPT now. You can see right away through it. I can't remember what they're calling it. Is it the M-Dash at the moment that's quite, that they're all talking about, You can see that obviously AI has written out predominantly CHAPT. But I feel that AI will enable people to, they'll want and need that human interaction even more. And actually they value it. So we all see that AI has been adopted a hell of a lot in roles like customer service. But it's still going to be. And I believe in the model of the 24-7 where if I want to, I love the idea of I can pick up the phone and call someone at three in the morning if I have insomnia. book an appointment. That's great. That's cool and speak to AI. But sometimes when I have a real problem, I want to be able to speak to a person. And that's why I think AI will enable to pick up, I always think of it in that 80, 20 split. We'll take 80% of that workload that is pretty repeatable and then allow that 20% to have that human interaction and almost like that special cases and actually have that personal touch.

Noel: Did you see the recent release by Google yesterday? they did their cloud next and they've got a new customer support voice agent so you can you can call it up and then if you're like a really angry customer because you know you haven't got a refund or whatever that agent understands it and it adapts its tone kind of thing and it adapts how it speaks to you you don't calm you down you diffuse the situation yeah yeah it wears like a human you'd be like oh I've had been a bad day and you've got someone shouting at you and you just be like oh I can't be bothered with this, but you don't give that right service.

Guest 1: No, but that's clever because let's be really be honest, we've all been in a position as well when we've been the customer and you are angry. And half the time you just want to vent and be heard. So actually, it's not nice for someone to have to listen to it, right? But realistically, you're after the time, you guys need to get off my chest.

Guest 2: Maybe this one that allow these people to vent and then someone can come in behind and solve the problem afterwards. So, yeah.

Katie: Yeah. It's the equivalent really, isn't it, of like a friend calling you up and they're just having a rant and a moan and you just think, I'll just put like the phone to the side and carry on with what I was doing and then just like pick it up every now and again and see if they're still going. Oh, yeah, they're still going. Right. Okay. It's kind of like the customer service equivalent to that, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah.

Guest 2: Yeah. You just need the AI to drop in a few. Even that, just a few. Yeah, I understand. I understand. Just let them go.

Katie: Yeah, we understand, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah,

Guest 1: yeah. I do, yeah, I feel like there's going to be, it's quite scary in an exciting way, I think. I don't, I don't buy into that I robot scenario of suddenly everyone is going to be, everyone's worried about AI in that same vein because like you touched on Katie, I remember a millennium and, yeah, I was just turned a teenager. and people worried about the whole world was going to crash and every system was going to go down and I remember vividly actually New Year's Eve at Millennium and I was in Greenwich in London and it was because family had a shop there so we kind of went and was above the shop for the party as kids we ran outside and was playing and stuff and I remember sitting thinking I wonder what happens is all the lights turn off like is it just going

Guest 2: to like the world just shut down and it didn't it just carried on

Katie: Yeah, because it was called the millennial bug, wasn't it? Yeah, do you remember? Yeah, I remember it so well. I mean, I'm a bit older. I think I was about 16 at the time, so I can remember. And I can remember as well, like some of my friends' parents had to go into the office on New Year's evening in case there were any, like, crashes, you know, or the whole systems went down. So, yeah, a lot of them were paid a lot of money. to basically go in and sit and watch, you know, the, yeah, the date tick over and then be like, right, nothing's happened. I'm just going to go home.

Guest 2: And if it did, they'd probably just turn it off and turn it back on again. It was a bit of fine.

Katie: This is true.

Guest 1: This is true.

Katie: So, yeah, it's the unknown. People don't like the unknown. A lot of people don't like change. But I feel like with AI and AI automations, I think it is critical to, you know, this continuous learning and, you know, emerging the roles or, you know, just kind of tweaking what we are doing. And if anyone's out there and thinking, okay, maybe I need to start adapting AI, you know, or they, you know, be like, oh, okay, I need, you know, to be efficient in AI, have it on their CV or, you know, even if they're a business owner. You know, what would you say, Liam and not all? I feel like I'm talking to Oasis now, Liam and Al. Oh, yeah,

Guest 2: we haven't before that, had we? No. Before. I should have worn my Parker jacket.

Katie: Have you got your guitars? You're going to sing a song at the end?

Guest 2: This is my excuse of being the moody one. Liam's more moody than now. Just remember that.

Katie: True, true, true, true. I forgot what I was going to say. Yeah, so, Leo and all, if people, So you're thinking, okay, right, I actually need to get on board with AI or have some AI experience that I can add to my CV or within my business. What would you say is a good way to like come into AI and AI automations?

Noel: I think a good place to start. If you're looking down the automation route is like, obviously, my old faith or my favorite, make.com.

Katie: Okay. So just the usual disclaimer, this podcast, not sponsored by make.com. No, just absolutely loves it.

Noel: So good. So good. But they've got loads of free training. So you can go all the way from like the basics to like super advanced in like probably a couple of days, I reckon. You could go through all of that training. So that's always a good place to start.

Guest 2: Yeah. Getting into AI.

Noel: You start talking to chat GPT and working on prompt engineering.

Guest 1: Yeah. I'd second that. That's actually how I found my way into it. It was, obviously chat Chb-T got released. It was like, this is cool. Play around with it and you play around a little bit more. And you say, I'm like, okay. And it was, I then fell in the rabbit hole naturally of like what was on socials and those people in that space. I went down the route of then looking at dot com and done the training with them, so done the modules and then started to understand it. But for me, it's kind of like you have to, you have to almost like reprogram, I think, how you use the internet a little bit. with AI in a sense of certainly still a little bit with early adopters. They use AI models like they use Google. And actually it's trying to then tell them that treat it like it's a person. And my best way of, when I explain it to my mom, I tell me I say, imagine you've got the world's cleverest eight-year-old that's just graduated from Harvard, right? But they're still eight, right? And that's how you need to talk to AI as you start. So it needs to be, you need to be really super clear with what your objective is and what you're trying to achieve, but you also know that it has all the information it would ever require. So actually the responsibilities on you to ensure that your instruction's clear and it doesn't need to be also trying to do like a home run. You can actually just have a conversation. And then when you start to then understand it and not treat it like a single search bar, because let's be honest, Google, and we're not sponsored by Google, I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah, next week.

Katie: If Google wants to sponsor it, And we are open to that.

Guest 1: But when you think about it, it wasn't linear. It was a one hit. You put it in search bar and returns an entry and you go down your own rabbit hole or you search again. And all right, it did learn what you were searching and things like that. But it wasn't, it was very much one at a time and that was it was done. Whereas obviously you're dealing, when you're communicating with AI models, it's very different. You're actually having a conversation with weird. with a model that you can have and actually start to build that out. So that's the advice I always say to like the total novice when they're looking at it, just to reframe how they approach it.

Katie: And I feel like that is such a great way to describe exactly how to use it.

Noel: Yeah, perfect. Definitely, yeah. Another way that I also look at it as well is if you're like trying to give it specific instructions to give you a certain output, is I always talk to it if I'm giving that job to somebody on Fiverr. So, you know, I've got to be super clear with what my end goals and objectives are and then it gives me exactly what I want instead of wishy-washy prompt. I kind of want this. I kind of want that, you know, we've got to be specific, as if you're paying for it.

Guest 2: Yeah.

Guest 1: Yeah, that's really good. I, I, you, a few people will want that listen to your podcast. You use Lume a lot and obviously Lume gives you a transcript. So a little one I always do is take the transcript from Lume where I'm describing what I want and then so now write me the email that is the cover letter to this transcript. So to me, it's kind of like you reverse engineer it. So it's actually then, and I always say it's the cover email. So it doesn't need to be the transcript. But here you go, now you know what the content of what is going to be, this handover document is going to be. For example, so when you're talking about Fiverr, that's the mindset of handing a task over. Yeah,

Katie: I love that. That's so good. That's a great little tip as well. Thanks, Leo.

Guest 1: Sorry.

Katie: Okay. So we talked about prompt engineering is a great way to get started as well as Mick Null's favorite at Mick.com.

Guest 1: What do

Katie: you think is important for business owners? So, you know, whether it's solopreneurs or whether it is SMEs or, you know, bigger multinational companies. Like what do you, where do you think is, is the place for them maybe to start with adopting AI, AI? automations into to their businesses?

Guest 1: For my conversations that I have with multiple different businesses, I tend to find that a lot of businesses don't have their SOPs, right? So it's very, very hard to go and build automation or replace people with AI because there isn't actually, there's no logic behind what you're trying to achieve. You actually haven't set, there is no map, there is no train track of how to get to the objective. So actually, for me, it's kind of like, this is where I have a person. I think in systems anyway. I know that. I've learned that about myself over the last kind of like five, ten years, which I think this plays into my world and my wheelhouse and I enjoy it so much. But I really feel that this move will make businesses operate better because they do need to get actually ready at the front end. It's almost like if you're going to go and go and cook, go get all your ingredients ready. You know, you go shopping first. You see every shopping list and then you have your ingredients and then you understand when things need to be done at what time. And I, and I, I I see that very much being the same, whereas I might cook the same recipe as either you to, but it might taste slightly different because we have a different tweak on it as we work our way through it. And that's just my adaptation of it and yours, vice versa. But realistically, I think if businesses want to look to adopt AI automation and what have you, they really need to get, understand what the end goal is and how to get there. Because for too many businesses at the moment, it's certainly the SME world is that owner-operator-reliant that they become the biggest asset and the biggest bottleneck in their own business. We see that a hell of a lot. And when you talk to them, it's like, where's this, where's that? And it's all in here, which is fantastic for them. But actually, we need to get that out and allow them to take the pressure off. And that's where I feel a lot of people, if they've got the systems or certainly things down on paper, they would be in a lot stronger position to then go and build that AI and automation to replace certain parts of that, not all of it, but they can certainly help streamline what they're trying to achieve.

Katie: Yeah, great answer. Yeah, I love that. It's all about this.

Guest 1: So everyone hates them though, didn't they? They hate them. They hate them. Yeah, I mean,

Katie: it's just like not a very exciting part of business, is it? But it is a really important part of business? And like, you totally like, like, hit the nail on the head because you're saying like and I've worked with businesses you know when I'm helping them with marketing it's it's all in someone's head and it's not down on paper for you know you know anywhere for anyone else to see or experience it and I find it's making them so unproductive and then they're hiring more and more and more people but actually if you just got a bit organized you wouldn't need to hire as many people as you really do need to hire but because Because, yeah, you haven't got these soaps in place.

Guest 1: Or the vicious circle, which is soaps as well, but even you touch on hiring is when I talk to business owners and I need to hire, but I'm so busy, I haven't got time to hire. So they're now in this vicious circle. They're going, I'm really busy. So I need to hire people. But I now don't have time to actually invest in the recruitment process, which then means that they might cut corners or whatever it might be. Then you end up with a bad hire potentially. Or, and a bad hire, by the way, is two ways. That's not a bad person. no it's very much sometimes it is it a culture fit and that's not a bad thing if it's not because we're all different so it's about finding the right place for you to thrive but i'm a real firm believer that if you want anyone to be successful in your organization the buck stops with you so i look at and go have you done everything you can to enable that person to be successful and that person could even eventually become an AI agent of certain tasks but do they know what their job is or are they trying to build the bridges they're crossing it themselves and if they are it's kind of your responsibility a little bit yeah yeah

Katie: that's a really good shape

Noel: very good

Katie: shape so something that has been kind of floating around especially I think with the online like business community that like I've been hearing and I think no you've been hearing this as well as like I'm using chat GPT and people think they don't need to know any more about AI or even like AI automation. What would both of you say if someone was saying that to you? Because like even me who, you know, I've not been in the AI world for, you know, as long as you two. I'm still new to it. but even I understand that chat GPT is not everything to do with AI. You know, there's so much more you can do with it and things like that. So, yeah, I'd really like to hear what you two have got to say about that remark.

Noel: Yeah, it's an interesting one because it's like, it's great that you're using it. You're already adopted in some form of AI, but at the same time, you know, you're still asking questions. You're probably getting a different response versus what somebody else. some of the businesses using it for. So it's not consistent. So, yeah, it's kind of, it's a stepping stone, I would say. But with automations and things that, you know, you can make things so much easier that you'll never need to copy, paste anything again. You know, where you're putting some, you get some out of chat, GBT, and they go, right, now I'm going to copy that and then put that in an email. We can get rid of all of that with automation and things that. So, yeah.

Guest 1: Yeah. But to take your point a bit further and what you've touched on there now is, and actually back into your world, Katie, he's like, there's layers to it. If you're taking an off-the-shelf, logging into chat, GPT, and you might even be on a free version, and you're giving it a single line or paragraph prompts, and assuming that you're going to get the output that you want, is going to be very difficult, because that is effectively saying anyone of however many billion people on the planet could have literally put largely the same thing in, where I think that there's actually the layers to this and where the AI and automation together, and certainly with marketing can be in unison and you can be clever with this is where you can build your tone of voice as a brand. So you sit and say, right, okay, as a business, this is our core principles. These are our values. These are our pillars. This is how we operate. And this is why we're all part of this because you have a shared common goal. But then if all three of us are sitting in the same room and the same business, Katie, you'll write a different, very, an email very differently to me and very differently to now. Now, we have the same core values and the same principle and the same objective as we're trying to achieve as a business as a collective. But that's my, the way I speak is very different. I'm not Bristolian, is that?

Guest 2: So there's certain quirks that I would not get away with that Noel certainly does.

Guest 1: So there's, that's where that's about building the layers within that where too often, and I get it because it's an entry point, but people are entering AI and they're seeing it as like a single shot prompt expecting world peace at the end of it. and they can then go and rule their market. But actually, if you want to be able to do that, you've got to put the work in early, build those tone of voice, build those brand values, and then actually, like Noel says, you could potentially never write an email again.

Katie: Yeah.

Guest 1: But if you use single shot every time, you have to write this killer prompt every single time because it doesn't have a basis to work from.

Katie: Yeah. And for me, like, that's what I see so much of online and for like the online service providers, is like, you know, steal my killer prompt to do X, Y, and Z. And like, part of me is screaming inside because I'm like, that's, that works for them, that business who created it and that's not going to work for, for me. Or it's like download like 200 killer hooks for emails. And it's just like, that's great. And it's like a really great, like, freebie and, you know, download. but actually that person's business could be very different to mine in terms of, you know, core pillars and tone of voice.

Guest 1: But then that's why if you had the infrastructure right, is what you could actually do is take that free download and actually tell your large language model that actually I've got this download. I appreciate it doesn't totally relate to our business. I want you to review these 200 killer hooks and I want you to rewrite them that matches our brand. and then actually your output of your 200 are relevant to your business. But you've taken the template that works elsewhere. Because let's be honest, everywhere you look at this plagiarism, artist plagiarism. So we're all taking some ink and then putting our own slant and our own twist on it. So there's nothing wrong with taking those 200 killer hooks and saying, right, brilliant, they're great. But I don't have an econ brand. They might be econ related for a nutrition product. That's not me. We'd do things very differently. But there's some learnings in there that would really. still relate to my business. So if I gave the right information, I would then get a far better output that suits for my business. Yeah.

Katie: It's that just that added extra bit that a lot of people still aren't aware of yet.

Guest 1: Yeah, it's, it's really required. And it's, it goes back to that point I said, it's, you almost need to hire when you're too busy. And this is the point. It's like you, when, if you then go, I want those 20 killer hooks now, but I'll come off to do that bit before. I don't want to do our brand guidelines, but if you do it once, honestly, it bears fruit.

Katie: It's very similar, though, Liam, to people that I talk to in the marketing, you know, when it comes to marketing, they're like, I'm too busy to market my business, but it's just like, well, kind of like, you know, get things sorted out and in place before you had got so busy where you can't now even, you know, have the brain space to do that. You know, it would be like this nice really like, you know, flow and, you know, it would be this lovely ecosystem all working for you.

Guest 1: And it is like with that, because you're spot on it, and Noel, no doubt to testify to this, is that it's so rewarding though when you deliver something for a client when they've said, oh, I'm really busy. And at times there are a real pain in the backside to get them over the line because you might jump on a call with them and you know that they're over there while you're trying to get something done because they are busy and I get it. We're all busy.

Katie: Yeah.

Guest 1: But then when you literally, you deliver something from. and save them 45, 50 minutes a day, and they go, oh, wow, I can brief. And not only that, it's the other side I see with it is, it's JP, my business partner, it talks about this a lot. It talks about velocity. But so velocity is a real point that's going to be driven by AI and automation. Quality is another major point because you've got that consistency. And I have a real, without being too corny, I have a real firm belief that the definition of greatness is being consistently good. And if you turn up every day and you're a seven or eight out of ten every single day, you'll be regarded as great. Look at anyone from any industry that certainly sports people, the ones that everyone regards are the ones that never put in a bad performance. And it's like, okay, if I can stay a seven out of ten every time, I'm going to be in a, I'm going to be regarded as a great in my industry. And that's what I think AI and automation will allow you. But what I think it also does, and this is a bit that I love the idea of it being able to do. And probably a bit more of a driver for me is, is it takes the pressure off for those business owners. We've all done it when something's sitting on that to do list and Monday's to do this, it's gone on to Tuesdays, and it's gone on to Wednesdays. And Thursday night, it's still not done and you're sitting there going, oh, God, and you're tired, you're stressed and it still doesn't get done. And actually, all it's done is it's played on your mind all week, whereas I love the idea of going, actually, I want to remove those stresses. I want that two and a half hour task to suddenly become a 20 minute review. So it might be creating a detail proposal for a client. And we've all been there going, I really need to do it. I need to get out of the door. But I've got to start from scratch and I've got to do this. And imagine sitting again actually sitting in my inbox as a draft and I've got to review it. You suddenly, when you know it's a 20 minute task, you can find time a lot easier.

Katie: Yeah.

Guest 1: I'm speaking about myself here because I know I'm awful at that.

Katie: No, I'm the same. Whenever I've got a really big task, like you say, it will go from Monday to Tuesday, to Wednesday, to Thursday. And actually, if I, even if I, you know, broke it down into smaller bits, it wouldn't seem so overwhelmed. But if I broke it down into smaller bits and now, right, I've got to do that and that. But I've already got a system in place, which makes it so much easier and quicker and sleek, then it's just like, yeah, that's probably going to get done on Monday instead of like, yeah, at the end of the week. Yeah, exactly.

Guest 1: And none of that stresses on your head all week, which is nice.

Katie: Okay. Amazing. Is anyone got anything else that they feel like they're desperate to get off their chest about this subject? Or do you feel like we've covered, we've covered it?

Noel: I think we've covered it, I think. Yeah, I think we've covered a lot of really interesting topics there. There's a lot for people to learn that's coming into this space.

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: I'd say getting on prompt engineering now and start working with AI and getting those consistent outputs. And then you can then employ that then into automations and then make sure that everything is consistent and works first time every time. Because that's what we always work from an automation.

Guest 2: That's the utopia. It's very difficult to get there as null seen with some of the work that I've done before. He's seen a few error emails come through. No.

Guest 1: But yeah. Help. Yeah. For me, I think I would not get, if I was talking to anyone, I'd say I wouldn't get bogged down in the detail in a sense of trying to become an expert in AI. I just have a play with it. Have a look at it. and like I say, have a conversation with it, you'll then start to, it will start to open your own mind up about its actual possibilities and what it can do. And if you have good examples and you have a clear objective of what you're looking to get out of it, it will, it will get pretty darn close and then allow you to then pick it up. But one thing I really don't, I sit a little bit different where I don't think AI is, AI isn't the answer for everything. And I also don't think that AI should be always the 100% of the job. I love the idea of going back to, I mentioned earlier, that 80 to 20. Imagine if I could say 80% of the workload away and let you do the 20%, which is the quality, the fine check, make sure you're happy, move it forward. And that's where that's where also, I think if you had that from a mindset and going back to what we talk about with jobs, I think people would probably feel a little bit more open to adopting it as opposed to they feel like it's just going to be replaced. Because naturally as people, certainly I've seen it a lot in the corporate world, people build modes to protect themselves, that their job stays safe. So there's a lot that they try and keep there. If you can show that actually you're still valued, there is, you've got 35 years in the industry that your relationships are super important. But what you want to do is save you sitting on your sofa at 9 o'clock, reading and writing emails. Let's take those parts away and help you with it. That's where I think AI is going to have a real impact.

Katie: Yeah, I agree. It's kind of adapting and kind of going with the flow of it rather than kind of resisting it and then I feel like then, you know, you're kind of getting left behind a bit. But I think if you're open to it and like you're saying, Liam, it's not going to replace you, but it's just going to help you, help your clients or all your business, then, yeah, I think that's the perfect way of looking at it.

Guest 1: Yeah.

Katie: Amazing. Well, Liam, thank you so much for joining us.

Guest 1: Pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Katie: I'll make sure that we put all of your links so people can come and find you in the show notes and thank you so much for listening and we will catch you next time for another episode very soon