S2. Ep7 - Does AI Actually Save You Time? (Harvard Says… Not Really)

Katie: Welcome to the AI Automations for Business Podcasts. We're your hosts, Katie and Null, and we'll be discussing how you can use AI for your business along with the latest news, updates and automations to help you stay ahead of the curve, allowing you to grow and scale your business more efficiently. Please be sure to subscribe and I hope you enjoy this episode. Hello, welcome back to another episode. Hi, hello, I'm Katie. And as always, I'm I have Noel here with me. How you doing, Noel?

Noel: Yeah, doing great as always, thank you.

Katie: Good eye, good I. I feel like it hasn't been that much of a crazy week in the world of AI, but actually, if I start to think about it, and very often, so Noel and I both work at home, but in different offices, and we come downstairs to have lunch together and it's usually something business related and I'm just thinking back to like our lunchtime kitchen chats and how much of that has been occupied by AI and actually quite a lot since our last podcast episode.

Noel: Yeah, there's been a fair few things going on, doesn't it? Yeah,

Katie: so I was obviously very excited because I thought I had found something AI-related that you might not have heard of. And I was really, like, excited to tell you.

Noel: Yeah.

Katie: Of course, Noel's heard about it. So I kind of burst into Noel's office and after I'd seen a TikTok. And I was like, Noel, have you heard of, like, Kimmy 2.5? Oh, yes.

Noel: Of course I have.

Katie: darn, what you... Listeners, you did not show that information with me.

Noel: No, well, it came out at the wrong time because it got lost in all the noise of open claw and clawed bot and maltbook and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah. Poor timing on their part, but yeah, yeah, it did get into my YouTube, so I did watch a few bits about it.

Katie: Okay, so what can you tell us about it?

Noel: So mostly, I guess it's kind of like a normal chatbot, like Chachabit Claude kind of thing. It's got the usual stuff, so reasoning and searching and all those sort of good things. But there are some bits that does make it a bit more unique. So they have the ability to build websites. So that's a dedicated area within that chat window. so I guess they've trained it a lot more on website design and things like because one thing I find is most vibe coded or AI creative websites they all kind of look the same they all use the same component libraries they use similar colors and yeah it's quite hard to make something look unique I've been trying to do that last week but so yeah they've got that part in there And I guess the other part is they've introduced something called an agent swarm, which is really interesting. So you could give it like a really complex task to do. And it would then go off and create up to 100 mini-agents that would go off and piece it all together and do little bits on its own little thing and then collate it all back and then give you the response. So that's something that doesn't really get done currently. I think you can do it inside ClaudeCode I think that's in there but yeah it's kind of buried a little bit but this is the first time we've seen it in like a chat GPT style interface which is pretty cool

Katie: so I guess like the question is would you be willing to use Kimmy 2.5 so I think that's what everyone wants to know wouldn't I use it

Noel: That's very true, yeah.

Katie: It isn't very true.

Noel: If not, why not? All right.

Katie: God, you're in trumpet.

Noel: Someone asked him. So, I don't know, actually. I've tested it out, of course. I haven't really let it loose on any business tasks just yet. I've got other things I've been tinkering with. But it is a model from China. So it is in the realm of deep seek and do we trust where the data is going and all that sort of, that debate comes back around that we had this time last year. So, yeah, I don't know, I would have to do a bit more digging into the privacy and, you know, how data gets stored before I could rubber stamp it and say, yeah, I would happily give my, you know, personal or not personal, but business data to it.

Katie: yeah okay all right well we'll stand by on that one and wait to see what happens but if you're using it we would obviously love to hear from you do um do let us know either in the LinkedIn group or drop us an email we'll put those details below for you so um yeah feel free because we always love hearing from you guys

Noel: absolutely okay

Katie: so shall we get into this week's episode no Absolutely.

Noel: Why not?

Katie: It's all about AI. Does it reduce work? Does it create work? Yeah.

Noel: It's an interesting take because I initially spotted this on my substack feed. And someone had created a post very similar to a totally you've just described there. And I was like, really? What's going on here? You know, surely AI should be reducing workload and making you more efficient and not creating more. So, yeah, I was like, that's an interesting take. So I do a bit of a bit more digging on that one.

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: To find out a bit more.

Katie: So we've actually got a report that Harvard, Harvard Business Review did. And I do find their reports quite interesting. They do a lot on, well, all sorts really, but they've done some really good ones on community and things like that before. So, yeah, I find they're always well written and easy to read. There's not a lot of, like, jargon and stuff with them. So with that in mind, with the Harvard Business Review findings, I think it's quite good. to go through the key takeaways from on that and let's have a bit of a chat through them. Yeah,

Noel: I guess the first one, I guess we'll talk about is it's not saving time, but it's kind of filling, you know, that time saved. So you might have saved 10 minutes, but then you're using AI to fill that 10 minute gap. You know, and you'll add in more stuff to your plate, I guess. It was the first key takeaway.

Katie: Yeah. So I'm going to give an example of this. So I feel like when it comes to me creating content, so at the moment, for my own business, I'm really trying to get into TikTok. I'm doing like this 30 day TikTok challenge. So for me, obviously, I'm creating a lot of videos. So when I first started this challenge, It, like TikTok, it's a new platform for my business and it is very different to other platforms. It's very different to Instagram in terms of like what you have to host and stuff like that. So I was thinking, oh, well, my mate Claude can help me out with this. And actually, I was wasting so much time with Claude. Whereas I was kind of like, right, I know kind of like the content pillars that I want as in, like, I need to do some storytelling content. I need to do some problem aware content. And then I just started writing out my own hooks. And I was like, would this entice me? Yes or no. And like, no, I was just tweaking myself. And then I was able to just kind of like, like do free form with the video. So I had my hook and I knew what I could talk about. Whereas at the very beginning, and I was like asking Claude not only to write some hooks for me. Obviously, I gave up all the details. And then it was writing scripts for me. And I was like trying to like be perfect with this script.

Noel: Yeah.

Katie: So then I was having to do God knows how many takes.

Noel: Yeah, I could never do that. I could never read a script.

Katie: So actually I've saved my say of time by just doing. it myself.

Noel: Yeah, that makes sense, yeah. Yeah, because you kind of figure out, you know, in this AI world, we kind of figure out what we, you know, can and shouldn't use it for, I guess. It's like, well, you can give it a go and then, you know, realize, or actually, you know, I could be a bit more creative or save a bit of time just by doing it myself, I guess. Yeah.

Katie: And I still kind of use it to help. me like with blog post in terms of like can you like list some bullet points for me but again it's me writing it and actually rather than asking Claude to write it for me and then me having to go through and edit it and making sure it sounds like me and removing things that you know I wouldn't say or thinking oh right well it said this and now I need to like kind of like make a bit more human or add a story into it and I was just thinking like just give me some like key points because then I can just kind of like write freely and actually it takes so much less time

Noel: yeah definitely yeah

Katie: but am I filling that time with other things yeah

Noel: I find I do when I do it When

Katie: I was really using Claude a lot for my content, and I'm sorry, this is the only example I've got, because I do create so much flipping content, I was trying to fill my time with other things, and I found myself procrastinating a lot more. So I was either filling my time with other tasks, or... I was like doom scrolling, basically.

Noel: Waiting for it to be done. Yeah,

Katie: I'm just going to be honest. Like, it's kind of like, oh, well, I've done that and I've done that and I've done that. Don't know what to do next. Haven't got like calls for a while. And yeah, I would find that actually. I was either doom scrolling or just filling it going, oh, I could do this. I could do this. Yeah.

Noel: I find that a lot with co-work.

Katie: Do you?

Noel: Yeah, that's, so Claude Co-Work saves me a lot of time. Yeah. So, you know, when we process the podcast and things, all I've got to do is give it the transcript and then that kind of starts the process and uses all the skills. That could take probably about 15 minutes to complete. But, yeah, I just then, like, I'm sat around twiddling my thumbs thinking, well, now what do I do?

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: So I open another tab of Claude, and I'm like, well, And off I go again. It's like, yeah.

Katie: And another thing that the Harvard Business Review said regarding this, it was about task expansion. So people start doing jobs that weren't theirs because AI makes it feel possible. So business owner, who used to outsource copyrighting or basic code, And I think, oh, I'll get, like, Claude to do it or APN AI to do it. And suddenly they're like juggling extra responsibilities.

Noel: Yeah. Yeah. They've saved that 10 minutes, you know, with AI doing that task. And then, yeah, they've expanded their job role, you know, straight away. Yeah, it's interesting how that works. I can see why. I mean, I obviously do, I'm not a coder for a programmer. So, you know, I end up doing stuff with Claude Code and things that I'm building things that, you know, previously would have been impossible for me to do without lots of learning. So, you know, I do get that it does creep in a bit. But at the same time, if you're building something that's going to be generally useful for your business, either generating revenue, getting new leads or, you know, it's going to be something that's going to save you time and be helpful, then why not, I guess. But, yeah, I can see on scale in a business, it could be quite hard to manage people and making sure that they're staying in their designated roles. They're not, you know, branching out and all of a sudden doing

Katie: more responsibilities and therefore then all of a sudden not getting paid for it. I can totally see that happening.

Noel: Oh, definitely, yeah. Yeah. I think it's really important,

Katie: isn't it? it's practicing those boundaries kind of just say actually this isn't part of my responsibility you know especially like the freelancers um contractors i think that's really important if any of our listeners are yeah freelancers or contractors i think it's really important to have that in

Noel: yeah definitely yeah yeah don't get carried away no

Katie: next thing that the Harvard Business Review found was, like, work becomes ambient. You're always on, never quite done. And it was saying about the quick last prompt before I leave, apparently a habit. I'm guessing this is, like, more for those who are employed rather than for our, you know, business owners.

Noel: Yes. Yeah, but I think you can kind of get stuck in it as well as a business owner because obviously with these sort of models like you could be sat having lunch and then just think, oh, you know what, I'll just ask this question now and then or get it to research something for me while I'm doing, you know, cooking dinner or whatever.

Katie: Yeah, I'll just get it up and running. So by the time it's had to think about it and spat out of an answer.

Noel: it'd be ready

Katie: for when I'm ready.

Noel: Exactly, yeah. I have a very big habit of doing that. I wish you probably don't know about it. But yeah, before lunch or if there's anything, I think, I know what, I could set Claude off to work on this for, you know, and it'll be done by the time I've had lunch or whatever. Then, you know, I'll do that. I'd never, I'd never chat to it, you know, like during break periods. I mean, I'm quite good at that. I wouldn't. I'd never chat to it on an evening.

Katie: No.

Noel: Unless there's some sort of trivia question or something. I'm like, is that true? Okay.

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: Or something that, yeah.

Katie: I'm guessing as well, like if you're running automations, I feel like it almost doesn't feel like work because you're like, well, I'm just going to set this automation off. And actually it's just going to run. And really it's saving me time. But, yeah.

Noel: Yeah, yeah, it's interesting how it's starting to leak into people's lives, isn't it? Yeah,

Katie: and sometimes actually when I feel like either maybe I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed or like what is, you know, something that I need to overcome or work out. Whereas like maybe before I don't know I might have had a coach or actually spoken to a human. I'm asking, you know, Claude or something like that. And, yeah, it's kind of like, it doesn't almost feel like work, but actually it's business related, so therefore it is work.

Noel: Yeah. And,

Katie: of course, it's so easy to do. Like, you know, when you are sat on the sofa on an evening or,

Noel: you know, on a weekend,

Katie: you know, a thought pops into your head. And, of course, we've just got it at our fingertips, haven't we?

Noel: Yeah, yeah. I've had ideas that I was just like, oh, I'll put that in there. And then, yeah, just close it and then be like, I'll come back to that, like on Monday, see what it comes back with. Yeah, I wouldn't, yeah, I don't, I don't tend to go full in in my spare time, I don't think.

Katie: No, I think you've got a lot better with that.

Noel: Yeah, yeah, I used to. Yeah, you used to be terrible.

Katie: for it. Yeah.

Noel: Yeah. I've learnt that boundary.

Katie: Well done. Well done. I'm making about five years. So I'm happy for you.

Noel: Thank you.

Katie: So the next thing it mentions is multitasking.

Noel: Hmm.

Katie: No, I don't really feel like multitasking is a bad thing.

Noel: No. I do also fall into this quite a bit as well. So I'll have...

Katie: You can multitask?

Noel: Only with AI, yes. Oh.

Katie: Not generally, no. No, I was going to do with his news to me. No,

Noel: so I would say, or where was it? So last week I was building a web app and getting ready for a to show it to a potential customer this week. So I was like, I would have Claude Code working away doing that part. And then I then got started thinking about websites. So then I had ClaudeCode somewhere else doing, you know, the front end web design. And then I'd be chopping and changing between the two. So yes, I'm, you know, creating thousands of lines of code without doing anything. That's great. but it does become difficult to, you know, remember and, you know, get the context right for each thing. So what did that one do half an hour ago? I haven't looked at it. What did I ask it to do? Whether it's like, yeah, right, now I can go again and, you know, ask it to do something else and then move back over to the websites and stuff.

Katie: Yeah. So with that multitasking, do you think it actually creates more work for you?

Noel: I mean, it saves work in terms of I don't have to sit there and write every line of code.

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: Because I couldn't, but even if I could, I couldn't type that speed if I tried. So yes, it saves that time, but it's also, I guess there's going back and reading and checking what it's done and things like that. So that can slow things down a bit. I would say, see, I would spend more time thinking about, you know, it's done this, what was I going to do next? I can't remember, so I have to think about that for a bit. And there's it go, right, oh, that was it, and then set it off again. So, yeah, yeah, it takes a bit. You've almost got to get back up to speed with each task as it finishes.

Katie: But does that make you feel productive? Because I'm guessing that might be your outcome. Is it to feel productive or accomplished? Like,

Noel: what does it actually

Katie: make you feel like being able to multitask those different AI or automation tasks?

Noel: I guess it does make me feel more productive. It gives you that sense of achievement as well because there's, you know, not only did I get this app ready, but then, you know, I created like some hero images. and you know I was sending those off to people to say well what sort of designs do you like and that sort of stuff so you know I created like 11 sample hero images images that were in there you know we're all done with AI you know that task on itself only took about an hour and a half so you know imagine trying to think of a design code the design yeah it just I could never have done that in an hour and a half

Katie: Okay.

Noel: So yeah, yeah, definitely feel a lot more productive, but... Okay,

Katie: yeah. Okay, so let's go back through those four, like, main points that we report found. And we'll go, let's go through and kind of say, like, do we agree? Do we disagree or, you know, maybe what we would do? So it feels the time you save.

Noel: I would agree with that, yes.

Katie: I'm also going to agree with that. Yeah,

Noel: yeah, it definitely does, doesn't it?

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: It's too easy.

Katie: It's too easy.

Noel: That's a problem.

Katie: Yeah. And then the next one was about more tasks and more responsibilities. So because, you know, you think or someone thinks I'll get clawed to do it. you feel like you can take on that task or that responsibility. Agree or disagree.

Noel: Definitely agree with that, yeah.

Katie: One hundred percent agree with this one. Yeah.

Noel: I mean, you could code your own website within Claude in 10 minutes time, you know. That's something you wouldn't normally do, but you could do it.

Katie: I still don't want to do it. No, I know.

Noel: Stop traveling with you stuff,

Katie: Noel.

Noel: Yeah.

Katie: Okay, so the third one was you always feel on and you don't feel like you can switch off from business.

Noel: So.

Katie: Agree or disagree?

Noel: For me personally, I would disagree, but I do agree with the sentiment. Because I've been there, I've been there, done that and come out the other side. thankfully so yeah yeah I could see why people would fall into that trap

Katie: yeah I do agree because I'm thinking all business owners in like in general and kind of very much blanketing everyone together and just I remember like my early years in business and I just didn't have any boundaries I was just working working working and Whereas now I'm kind of like, well, I mean, I will do something if I feel really excited or if it's got, you know, that real interest. But otherwise, I'm like, no, it's a Saturday or no, it's a Sunday.

Noel: I'm not doing it. So,

Katie: yeah, okay. Okay. And then the last one, so it was about multitasking with AI and automations. It makes you feel productive, but actually maybe isn't because of the different context and switching and, I guess, like, brainload.

Noel: Do I agree with that? I think I do. I think I do agree with it because, yeah, like I say, the last week, I've been in that trap. Okay.

Katie: I think I'm also going to agree. and the reason why I agree is because I've seen you do it.

Noel: I was doing it just before we sit record on this podcast.

Katie: I knew you were. I could see like your eyes starting about your different screens.

Noel: It's not sat

Katie: in front of three different screens I'd like to add.

Noel: Claude's busy. He's off doing something for me at the minute.

Katie: I think what this episode really, has highlighted is boundaries.

Noel: You need to have your

Katie: own boundaries within your business.

Noel: Definitely yes. Yeah. And also it comes down to like education as well. So if you've got a small team that also use AI, it's kind of like training them that same mindset isn't it? So they're not going off and doing some random stuff and, you know, they're creating documents for HR and they're in engineering or something yes

Katie: yeah it's making sure you are yeah it's the welfare isn't it of your of your team if you do have one but then you need to put in that own care and attention into yourself if it's just you like you would a team like would i expect a team member to be doing this would i ask a team member to be doing this on top of everything else they've done today

Noel: yeah definitely yeah Yeah,

Katie: I think that's really important. Yeah.

Noel: But there was one other thing that I noticed within this blog post is it all talks about chat LLMs. It doesn't talk about automations in there. So obviously I put it through Claude, and I was like just a triple check that I'd read it right. And it was like, yeah, no, this is. So basically the whole report was like, looking at like 200 our businesses, but the track they were falling in was the ease of the chat model. So firing up chat GPT or Claude and asking questions.

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: Having that almost instant response kind of thing to, you know, that was, it was that chat in time that was taken up a lot of people's time. And, you know, it was becoming, that was like kind of the key issue. So I then started looking at the kind of a different way and then thinking, well, hold on a minute. They just use an agent's because they think they should. You know, because Claude and OpenAI Chachabutea are essentially an agent. So it's kind of like, well, if those sort of things were done by an automation, you don't have to sit there and watch it. You know, those sort of things just happen in the background. So you could tick a box in the CRM and then something goes off and happens. and then the job's done for you kind of thing. You're not having to have that conversation, you know, and back and forth, which can kind of, I guess, lead you down different paths as well, doesn't it?

Katie: The conversation. Yeah.

Noel: Which could then think, oh, actually, yeah, I could build, I could code a tool that could do that. And then before you know it, you're off doing something completely different. Yeah.

Katie: I feel like you can go down a massive rabbit hall as well when you're using, you know, an LLN. because if you'll ask it something or ask it to help you with something, and then it's spit something else out.

Noel: And then you're like,

Katie: oh, I haven't thought about that, start a new chat.

Noel: And then,

Katie: you know, you're talking about something completely different to what you were talking about, like, just a couple of minutes ago.

Noel: Yeah, yeah. So what I guess I would kind of suggest is if you're asking chat chattip-t or whatever, the same stuff every week, you know, or, you know, you have. those common things then start to look at putting those into an automation yeah and you know and just let those run on autopilot you know it doesn't take that much to do that these days so you know I would definitely look at that because then you are generally saving time because you're not having to type away or talk to it and then you don't get distracted either so yeah that's kind of quite important, I think, is the distraction part. Yeah.

Katie: For sure. Yeah, easily distracted. Yes.

Noel: Oh, squirrel.

Katie: Yeah. I mean, I think our attention is really, you know, well, everyone's attention span now is shorter and shorter, isn't it?

Noel: So. Yes.

Katie: Yeah. And I think sometimes we're doing things and we don't even realize. Like, for example, you know, we're asking. it in, say Claude to do something, it comes up with something we hadn't thought about, oh, right, start a new chat. And then, yeah, you are chatting about something that actually wasn't even, yeah.

Noel: Not relevant.

Katie: Not relevant, not on you to do left. Yeah.

Noel: Yeah, yeah. I guess with chat models, or you've also kind of got the, there's always those disclaimers at the bottom saying, though, so the responses you get back may not be accurate.

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: And things like that, whereas I guess in an automation, you could train it in those specific tasks to give you what you need that's right first time every time. If you're not having to go through that loop of editing and like we're fine with Chachyptee arguing to get what you need.

Katie: Yeah, I mean, I've done arguing now with Chachap T because we're not friends anymore. me and Claude of Estes now, I'm afraid.

Noel: Sorry, Chuck Chitty.

Katie: But actually, we should mention this. This is one of our kitchen lunchtime chats. So, Noel, do you want to tell people what you asked Chatchipiti. Was it yesterday?

Noel: I think it was over the weekend, actually.

Katie: Oh, Danger is.

Noel: I know. I looked through Substack. and someone had posted a picture of like a chat-tbt post with the response. And I initially read it and I thought, no, come on, that can't be true. Because these days you could put, you know, a chat-j-j-tree response into something like nano-banana and then it could then, you know, edit it to make it look like it's an idiot kind of thing, the silly response.

Katie: Okay.

Noel: So posts can be easily faked, I guess. So I was skeptical. But the question was this, it was like, I need to go and wash my car. The car wash is 100 metres away. Should I walk or should I drive? Now, the obvious, like, for a human being that, that's obvious. I need to wash the car. The car wash is 100 metres away. I've got to take the car to the car wash.

Katie: Yes.

Noel: That would be the logical thing to do. So I put it in. into chat chobit, and it came back with the same response I saw on this substack post, which was, well, walk. I was like, what do you mean walk? And it was like going through all these different things, saying, well, if you walked, you're saving wear and tear with starting an engine from coal just to drive 100 meters. You know, you're getting exercise. Good advice. It was like six points that come back with. I was like, I completely missed the point here. So I stopped at that point, and I sent the exact same message to Claude, and it sent me a one-sentence response, which was, well, of course you're going to drive because you've got to take the car to the car wash. I was like, thank you. Someone understands it. But I kept going back to Chuck JVT. I wonder how long it's going to take it to twig what I'm getting at. So I said, well, as soon as I'm walking, should I take a bucket with me? you know, because I've got to have something to wash the car. And it was like, yeah, but if it's got like the jet washers and the foam brushes, then you could use those. And I was like, well, yeah, I could, but my car's still at home. And it was like, oh, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, you probably should just take a bucket and fill those up while you're there. I was like, oh, come on. I had about six back and forth before it twigged and went, oh, actually, yeah, no, no, you should take the car. Yeah, because you need to wash it. Wow. Yeah. Use the right LLM for the right task, is what I'm doing.

Katie: That is the lesson

Noel: we learned today,

Katie: along with Bangerers.

Noel: Yeah. But now I can see loads of videos of people doing somewhat similar, so they've either asked that same question.

Katie: Yeah.

Noel: Or they'll ask other similar-style questions and then see what they get back. Some of the responses are brilliant.

Katie: Not a lot. Yeah.

Noel: Okay,

Katie: so should we leave it there? this week?

Noel: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we've covered a lot this week.

Katie: We have. We hope you've enjoyed this week's podcast. Please feel free to subscribe, give us a like or leave us a review. It really does help us. If you've got any questions for us, please either email us or leave them in the LinkedIn group. We love hearing your questions. And we will catch you next time for another episode very soon.